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Category: Support Forum: Website Support Thread: What's up with the stats taking SO long??? |
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Thread Status: Active Total posts in this thread: 10
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keithhenry
Ace Cruncher Senile old farts of the world ....uh.....uh..... nevermind Joined: Nov 18, 2004 Post Count: 18665 Status: Offline Project Badges: |
I know we're processing more data these days but it seems that it's taking exponentially longer every day! It was THREE HOURS and 15 MINUTES before the results were available today. With the upcoming time change, you're looking at after 11PM on the US east coast before this information is available. Essentially USELESS until overnight. Not long ago, you'd start seeing the "unavailable" message about 5-10 minutes after the UTC midnight. Now it's 20-30 minutes. If it's just the sheer amount of data, couldn't we POSSIBLY CONSIDER going BACK to FOUR stats updates a day? Timely access to the day's results is becoming futile at best, a joke at worst.
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Dataman
Ace Cruncher Joined: Nov 16, 2004 Post Count: 4865 Status: Offline Project Badges: |
I concur, Keith. This antiquated “batch posting” system is so out-of-touch with other DC projects which update dynamically. The WCG process and points was the beta max format in a VCR world and has now become the HD format in a Blue Ray world.
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Former Member
Cruncher Joined: May 22, 2018 Post Count: 0 Status: Offline |
Maybe if the database wasn't still holding masses of dead/inactive accounts/devices it would be more efficient?
Would reflect a more realistic userbase figure too. But then, as one of the biggest projects it has a lotta stats to process I spose. |
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keithhenry
Ace Cruncher Senile old farts of the world ....uh.....uh..... nevermind Joined: Nov 18, 2004 Post Count: 18665 Status: Offline Project Badges: |
Antiquated or not, it's what we have. The point is that only three months ago, we were still seeing the day's results in two hours or less. We've easily seen a 50% increase in the time that takes since then. WHY? If it's just the SHEER volume of data, would switching back to four updates a day reduce the delay at the end of the day to something reasonable and tolerable? We're wreaking havoc on other statistics sites too forcing them to repeatedly readjust their schedules around our problems.
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Sekerob
Ace Cruncher Joined: Jul 24, 2005 Post Count: 20043 Status: Offline |
Stats and other maintenance has in fact been much quicker since the last tweaks **. From what i see the actual lockout part of stats run started like 1.5 hours later.... because we had that onslaught of Work Unit Volume to deal with that knreed wrote about. The second half of Monday processed 126 CPU years to get an idea and for the day we broke thru the record of WU big time by getting 485 thousand tasks in which was 18k over the Friday record.
----------------------------------------The 6 or 12 hour interval just deals with personal stats. The daily also handles all the other stats like team and bunch of housekeeping. And what you don't see but will at some time is that for each member WCG is also keeping track of contribution per project. The product of that you already saw in the badges. Wait until you see more appear on your My Grid page for the boast factor. It's always work in progress and always seeking new boundaries. ** The Saturday noon run is scheduled to take over 2 hours and was done in an hour to get the idea! So far my party line walk .... cruching on
WCG Global & Research > Make Proposal Help: Start Here!
----------------------------------------Please help to make the Forums an enjoyable experience for All! [Edit 1 times, last edit by Sekerob at Feb 19, 2008 9:05:57 AM] |
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Sekerob
Ace Cruncher Joined: Jul 24, 2005 Post Count: 20043 Status: Offline |
For those that like to get the picture of "The Divine Explosion", here's one of the series of extra graphs that are posted in the Start Here forum (graphs link in my sig) for the Staddicts and why we have had few bottlenecks. Work allocation is being readjusted to mitigate the unwanted delays (see post knreed).
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WCG Global & Research > Make Proposal Help: Start Here!
----------------------------------------Please help to make the Forums an enjoyable experience for All! [Edit 1 times, last edit by Sekerob at Feb 19, 2008 2:08:56 PM] |
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retsof
Former Community Advisor USA Joined: Jul 31, 2005 Post Count: 6824 Status: Offline Project Badges: |
Some of this is a result of the design of the UD process, which takes more and more time to process longer and longer chains.
----------------------------------------The remainder is the result of recent workunit splits that gave a lot of short workunits, kicking up the results and the workload. On the old grid.org, which had been around longer it took the entire evening to process UD, as they only had one stat run per day. Once UD goes away and becomes a constant, it can be merely added to the conversion of the BOINC result, rather than tying up the works.
SUPPORT ADVISOR
----------------------------------------Work+GPU i7 8700 12threads School i7 4770 8threads Default+GPU Ryzen 7 3700X 16threads Ryzen 7 3800X 16 threads Ryzen 9 3900X 24threads Home i7 3540M 4threads50% [Edit 2 times, last edit by retsof at Feb 19, 2008 4:35:01 PM] |
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knreed
Former World Community Grid Tech Joined: Nov 8, 2004 Post Count: 4504 Status: Offline Project Badges: |
I concur, Keith. This antiquated “batch posting” system is so out-of-touch with other DC projects which update dynamically. The WCG process and points was the beta max format in a VCR world and has now become the HD format in a Blue Ray world. It is worth noting that the other BOINC projects do not have daily stats (I don't think Folding@Home has daily stats either - but I could be wrong). The daily stats are essence a datamart which is what takes so long during the stats update. Having said that, I agree - I want the stats update process to be faster. We will rework them and take a look at options to eliminate the 'lock out' period all together. However, this work will wait until after we shut down UD. Why is that? Because the UD system requires DB2 7.2 . That is a very old version (released June 2001). One of the major task after shutting down UD will be to upgrade to DB2 9.5. We will then have new tools and options available to us to utilize for these stats update which should improve the experience for the users. |
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keithhenry
Ace Cruncher Senile old farts of the world ....uh.....uh..... nevermind Joined: Nov 18, 2004 Post Count: 18665 Status: Offline Project Badges: |
I understand that bigger volumes take longer to process but I also thought we had a set up that was supposed to be easily scalable. Guess that doesn't necessarily apply to the stats. When you offer daily stats, regardless of what other projects do, they need to be timely to be useful. On the flip side of the coin, I can understand the limited resources and being hamstrung by UD until it deservedly bites the dust. Not being familiar with the behind the scenes aspect of just what is involved in updating the stats, it's hard to understand these complexities and limitations. Most users won't bother trying to consider such things. They expect timeliness. How about this for an idea - take the current process and have it simply restart itself each time it finishes so that it is running all the time. Each cycle will simply process what has come in during the previous cycle. Rather than have it lock users out of the statistics side of the website, let it update one of two copies of the databases and such. At the times you want to "release" the updated info to the public, you simply "redirect" the website to the current copy of the databases and let that copy "replicate" with the old copy and start the repeating cycles over again. That would eliminate or significantly minimize the current outage time and would hopefully involve a minimal amount of work. Even with the better/faster/fancier stuff coming post-UD, it could be a good approach to handling future growth.
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retsof
Former Community Advisor USA Joined: Jul 31, 2005 Post Count: 6824 Status: Offline Project Badges: |
The UD programs are proprietary, and WCG decided not to pay a lot of real $$ to get a new version. UD got bought out anyway.
----------------------------------------BOINC is the future. It was only the individual stats that formerly got updated 4 times/day. Team stats have always been done after midnight UTC.
SUPPORT ADVISOR
----------------------------------------Work+GPU i7 8700 12threads School i7 4770 8threads Default+GPU Ryzen 7 3700X 16threads Ryzen 7 3800X 16 threads Ryzen 9 3900X 24threads Home i7 3540M 4threads50% [Edit 1 times, last edit by retsof at Feb 20, 2008 2:12:19 AM] |
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